RE: [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement (VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) uploaded

Goran,

 

Or we make that statement!  The "Why?" to that is also most
instructive!!

 

"While XML-scripting is an integral part of what ebSOA is seeking to
enable, and many OASIS specifications themselves provide extended
tools for, XML-scripting by itself it is not the complete solution for
SOA. To make these techniques function effectively requires a complete
supporting architecture that enables their use in a dependable and
robust way."

DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:
 [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
 
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)    
        uploaded
From:

Date: Wed, March 29, 2006 11:11 am
To:
"David RR Webber (XML)" <>
Cc:
, , "Goran Zugic"

<>

David,

 

SOA integration and
interoperability is much more than "XML scripting". It has to
be explained properly or not communicated that way at all. I think
that our vision document is not the place for that.

 

Goran

-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber
\(XML\) [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29,
2006 10:45 AM
To: 
Cc:
, , 'Goran
Zugic'
Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Groups -
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) uploaded

Groan,

 

OK - I'm not disputing that your implementation is wonderful! 

 

So what is wrong with merely a simple sentence that articulates the
dynamic scripted nature of the deployment model?

 

Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:
 [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
 
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)    
    uploaded
From: 
Date: Wed,
March 29, 2006 10:41 am
To: "David RR Webber (XML)"
<>, "Goran Zugic"

<>
Cc: ,


David,

 

I am not going to repeat
what I already mentioned. However, I have a comment regarding the
technical stuff you discussed below.

 

If you read the FERA-based
SOA material contributed to ebSOA TC you would realize that it is 100%
XML based ("XML scripting" in your term/solution) with Collaborative
Process Information Document (CPID) as its output and that it does not
require any coding to compose applications/systems in SOA. There are
technical details that are  much more than the "XML scripting"
that stand behind this and enable overall integration and
interoperability in SOA. All these details are documented in the
FERA-based SOA material available in the ebSOA TC document repository.
Please keep in mind that this is not just the theoretical stuff. An
implementation for this already exists  and it can be
demonstrated. Again, we decided that the technical details will not be
the part of the vision document. 

 

Goran

-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber
\(XML\) [mailto:]
Sent: Wednesday, March 29,
2006 09:21 AM
To: 'Goran Zugic'
Cc:
, 
Subject:
RE: [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) uploaded

Goran,

 

Some responses.

 

While we have to explain our purpose - we have to be careful to not
re-hash familiar ground for the reader.  We only have their
attention for a short while - and I know that when people hit "page
down" and see more several pages of tight text - they stop! 
Better to make the message short and to the point in the Vision - and
leave the long version for the specification...  I know there's
lots of things you would want them to read - but reality is they are
not going to ; -)

 

Short and succinct in the Vision is vital.

 

I like my "XML scripted" assertion.  Since this is fundamental
to what OASIS does - I feel its essential that we state this.  I've
got flak from the BOD before now - particularly WRT the BCM spec's
because there is no apparent mention of XML artifacts - a staple
apparently of what OASIS is!  Overall also - I do believe that
XML-scripting is a key to successful SOA.  People think of XML
just as schema and data.  Alerting them to the other facet of XML
is important.  I do not think this is overly technical.  It
is up to executives to insist that XML-scripting is at the heart of
their SOA implementations.  All to often today - everything is
hard coded - and just gives the semblence of being "agile" - when in
reality everything needs to be changed by hand by programmers whenever
a schema or other component is changed within the "SOA".

 

Similarly - with BCM - this is one specification that is
particularly aligned with ebSOA IMHO - and is about to be (all things
being equal) an approved OASIS specification by Friday.  Relating
our work to approved standards I believe is important and provides
people with a clear foundation.  I see an emerging family of
approved OASIS standards here - and folks should be able to see where
ebSOA fits amongst that.

 

In the case of the BCM - it also saves us having to reiterate
things that it already covers off for us - particularly at the business
level.

 

Point taken that TC members need to assimulate exactly what that
all is - however - overall I sense this should be a savings in time and
effort overall...

 

DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:
[ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
 
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)    
uploaded
From: "Goran Zugic"
<>
Date: Tue, March 28, 2006 10:39
pm
To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <>
Cc:
<>,
<>

David,

 

What you removed and modified in the
document is more than the "motherhood and apple pie stuff ". I think
these are one of the most important parts that would help readers of
the document to better understand the core of ebSOA TC architectural
solution and vision. 

 

You also added 

 

"
-  Software development itself is
become open and global and based upon interoperable components that can
be adapted and purposed using particularly XML scripted
mechanisms.  Providing the roadmap for using such components in a
coherent, reliable and proven way is the value desired by
implementers.

 

"

 

paragraph in the "Background" section. I
think that the "XML scripted mechanisms" is too technical stuff
for this kind of the document. For your information, we decided to take
out technical details (we had before) out of the vision document long
time ago.

 

I also do not understand your BCM-related
additions to the document. I think that this TC needs to better
understand BCM or any other related specs before explicitly mentioning
it in the document like this one.  At the same time, you can also
see that we have not explicitly mentioned any specific standard specs
except the standard "groups" like ebXML and Web Services. However, I
believe that BCM will find its place in ebSOA TC specs.

 

Goran

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: David RR Webber (XML)

To:  

Cc:  ;  

Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:22
PM

Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Groups -
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) uploaded

Folks,

 

Attached edited version - I did more changes et al -
plus re-organization.

 

Eventually I believe we need three documents - this one seems to be
merging all three into one! ; -)

 

The good news is - what I see is very good - I'd venture to say the
best we have ever had.

 

Sometimes though we veer off into telling people motherhood and
apple pie stuff - so I've deleted what I saw as falling into that
category.  Less is more always!!

 

The three eventual products that I see we need are:

 

1) Revised Charter - short succinct - two pager.

 

2) Executive Summary / Outreach / Press Release type material
explaining applicablity of Charter to the real world

3) Approach
and Roadmap to guide our own internal work products

 

I think we can easily derive these from the document - and I've
attempted to re-organize it a bit to make this a bit clearer. 

 

Talk with everyone at 3pm (caveat - I'll be driving around school
parking lots collecting children)

 

Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re:
[ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
 
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)    
uploaded
From: 
Date: Tue, March 28,
2006 11:07 am
To: ,


Sally,

I have few comments that are included in the attached file.

Regards,

Goran

>-----Original Message-----
>From:
 [mailto:]
>Sent:
Friday, March 17, 2006 06:21 PM
>To:

>Subject: [ebsoa] Groups -
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)
uploaded
>
>Draft that outlines goals of defining a
complete SOA solution by providing
>an integrated framework and
providing guidance for how to achieve the
>solution. Circulate
comments on the list. Intent is to prepare a final
>statement and
to use discussion to advance work on specification and
best
>practices documents.
>
> -- Sally St.
Amand*
>
>The document named
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
>(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)
has been submitted by Sally St.
>Amand* to the OASIS Electronic
Business Service Oriented Architecture
>(ebSOA) TC document
repository.
>
>Document
Description:
>
>
>View Document
Details:
>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ebsoa/document.php?document_id=17279
>
>Download
Document:

>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ebsoa/download.php/17279/VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc
>
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