RE: [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement (VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) uploaded

Goran,

 

I think we should make sure we convey your
last point below in the vision statement even if we do not go into technical
detail.

 

George

 

From:
 [mailto:] 

Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
9:11 AM

To: David RR Webber (XML)

Cc: ;
; Goran Zugic

Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Groups -
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement (VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)
uploaded

 

David,

 

SOA integration and interoperability is
much more than "XML scripting". It has to be explained
properly or not communicated that way at all. I think that our vision document
is not the place for that.

 

Goran

-----Original Message-----

From: David RR Webber \(XML\)
[mailto:]

Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
10:45 AM

To: 

Cc: ,
, 'Goran Zugic'

Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Groups -
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement (VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)
uploaded

Groan,

 

OK - I'm not disputing that your implementation is wonderful!  

 

So what is wrong with merely a simple sentence that articulates the
dynamic scripted nature of the deployment model?

 

Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re:  [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement  

(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)        
uploaded

From: 

Date: Wed, March 29, 2006 10:41 am

To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <>, "Goran
Zugic" 

<>

Cc: , 

David,

 

I am not going to repeat what I already
mentioned. However, I have a comment regarding the technical stuff you discussed
below.

 

If you read the FERA-based SOA material
contributed to ebSOA TC you would realize that it is 100% XML based ("XML
scripting" in your term/solution) with Collaborative Process Information
Document (CPID) as its output and that it does not require any coding to
compose applications/systems in SOA. There are technical details that are 
much more than the "XML scripting" that stand behind this and enable
overall integration and interoperability in SOA. All these details are documented
in the FERA-based SOA material available in the ebSOA TC document repository.
Please keep in mind that this is not just the theoretical stuff. An
implementation for this already exists  and it can be demonstrated. Again,
we decided that the technical details will not be the part of the vision
document. 

 

Goran

-----Original Message-----

From: David RR Webber \(XML\)
[mailto:]

Sent: Wednesday, March 29, 2006
09:21 AM

To: 'Goran Zugic'

Cc: ,


Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Groups -
DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement (VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)
uploaded

Goran,

 

Some responses.

 

While we have to explain our purpose - we have to be careful to not
re-hash familiar ground for the reader.  We only have their attention for
a short while - and I know that when people hit "page down" and see
more several pages of tight text - they stop!  Better to make the message
short and to the point in the Vision - and leave the long version for the specification... 
I know there's lots of things you would want them to read - but reality is they
are not going to ; -)

 

Short and succinct in the Vision is vital.

 

I like my "XML scripted" assertion.  Since this is
fundamental to what OASIS does - I feel its essential that we state this. 
I've got flak from the BOD before now - particularly WRT the BCM spec's because
there is no apparent mention of XML artifacts - a staple apparently of what
OASIS is!  Overall also - I do believe that XML-scripting is a key to successful
SOA.  People think of XML just as schema and data.  Alerting them to
the other facet of XML is important.  I do not think this is overly
technical.  It is up to executives to insist that XML-scripting is at the
heart of their SOA implementations.  All to often today - everything is
hard coded - and just gives the semblence of being "agile" - when in
reality everything needs to be changed by hand by programmers whenever a schema
or other component is changed within the "SOA".

 

Similarly - with BCM - this is one specification that is particularly
aligned with ebSOA IMHO - and is about to be (all things being equal) an
approved OASIS specification by Friday.  Relating our work to approved
standards I believe is important and provides people with a clear foundation. 
I see an emerging family of approved OASIS standards here - and folks should be
able to see where ebSOA fits amongst that.

 

In the case of the BCM - it also saves us having to reiterate things
that it already covers off for us - particularly at the business level.

 

Point taken that TC members need to assimulate exactly what that all is
- however - overall I sense this should be a savings in time and effort
overall...

 

DW

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement  

(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)     uploaded

From: "Goran Zugic" <>

Date: Tue, March 28, 2006 10:39 pm

To: "David RR Webber (XML)" <>

Cc: <>, <>

David,

 

What you removed and modified in the document is more than
the "motherhood and apple pie stuff ". I think these are one of the
most important parts that would help readers of the document to better
understand the core of ebSOA TC architectural solution and vision. 

 

You also added 

 

"

-  Software development itself is become open and global and based upon
interoperable components that can be adapted and purposed using particularly
XML scripted mechanisms.  Providing the roadmap for using such components
in a coherent, reliable and proven way is the value desired by implementers.

 

"

 

paragraph in the "Background" section. I think
that the "XML scripted mechanisms" is too technical stuff for this
kind of the document. For your information, we decided to take out technical
details (we had before) out of the vision document long time ago.

 

I also do not understand your BCM-related additions to the
document. I think that this TC needs to better understand BCM or any other
related specs before explicitly mentioning it in the document like this
one.  At the same time, you can also see that we have not explicitly
mentioned any specific standard specs except the standard "groups"
like ebXML and Web Services. However, I believe that BCM will find its place in
ebSOA TC specs.

 

Goran

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: David RR
Webber (XML) 

To:  

Cc:  ;  

Sent: Tuesday, March 28,
2006 1:22 PM

Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Groups
- DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement (VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)
uploaded

 

Folks,

 

Attached edited version - I did more changes et al -
plus re-organization.

 

Eventually I believe we need three documents - this one seems to be
merging all three into one! ; -)

 

The good news is - what I see is very good - I'd venture to say the
best we have ever had.

 

Sometimes though we veer off into telling people motherhood and apple
pie stuff - so I've deleted what I saw as falling into that category. 
Less is more always!!

 

The three eventual products that I see we need are:

 

1) Revised Charter - short succinct - two pager.

 

2) Executive Summary / Outreach / Press Release type material
explaining applicablity of Charter to the real world

3) Approach and Roadmap to guide our own internal work products

 

I think we can easily derive these from the document - and I've
attempted to re-organize it a bit to make this a bit clearer.  

 

Talk with everyone at 3pm (caveat - I'll be driving around school
parking lots collecting children)

 

Thanks, DW

-------- Original Message --------

Subject: Re: [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement  

(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc)     uploaded

From: 

Date: Tue, March 28, 2006 11:07 am

To: , 

Sally,

I have few comments that are included in the attached file.

Regards,

Goran

>-----Original Message-----

>From:  [mailto:]

>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 06:21 PM

>To: 

>Subject: [ebsoa] Groups - DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement
(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) uploaded

>

>Draft that outlines goals of defining a complete SOA solution by providing

>an integrated framework and providing guidance for how to achieve the

>solution. Circulate comments on the list. Intent is to prepare a final

>statement and to use discussion to advance work on specification and best

>practices documents.

>

> -- Sally St. Amand*

>

>The document named DiscussionDraft-VisionStatement

>(VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc) has been submitted by Sally St.

>Amand* to the OASIS Electronic Business Service Oriented Architecture

>(ebSOA) TC document repository.

>

>Document Description:

>

>

>View Document Details:

>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ebsoa/document.php?document_id=17279

>

>Download Document: 

>http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ebsoa/download.php/17279/VisionStatement.ebSOA_DiscussionDraft.doc

>

>

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