[xacml] XACML June 27, 2002 Minutes

Title: XACML Conference Call Minutes

XACML
Conference Call

Date:  Thursday, June 27, 2002

Time: 10:00 AM EDT 

Tel: 512-225-3050 Access Code: 65998 

 

Summary

Outstanding action items were reviewed and Tim gave an overview of the
F2F progress. He outlined the three proposals in place for typing and the
committee is waiting on Daniel to write up his proposal. There is a vote set
for 7/8 to decide this. Some discussion on SAML changes was held. Michiharu is
working on a SAML transformation. Hierarchies in request caused some discussion
as this was something SAML had considered and voted down. Tim brought up MathML
and has converted it into an XML schema that can be read by XACML schema. He
will send it out to the list. There was agreement that we only would require a
small subset of MathML and some discussion over whether we should reference MathML
or absorb the parts we need. The next F2F was decided on to be a 3 day event
outside Boston at the Hitachi facilities on 7/30 - 8/1. The
objective will be to wrap up the specification. Don will be posting details of
hotels, directions, etc.

 

Action
Items

 
Ernesto to send to Anne non-normative examples of
     policy signatures after exams complete.

 
Ken to send out updated issues list in next week.

 
Anne to put together single, concise example by
     7/11

 
Carlisle/Tim to release new schema by Mon/Tues of
     next week (7/2)

 
Tim to release v15 of spec by 7/12

 
Tim - first draft of Access Control background
     due 7/19. Will send out nine points to list first.

 
Anne and Michiharu to send reference material to
     Tim

 
All to review Tim's list of nine areas and
     if aware of any background material that can collect up and comment on,
     send it to Tim

 
Set new due date for XACML primer from Hal and Konstantin.
     To start no later than 7/12 (v15 publish date)

 
Hal to propose something for section 6 of spec
     early in week of 7/8 so that it can be incorporated into v15.

 
Daniel to post his proposal for typing to list by
     Friday 6/28

 
Don to send out logistic details for F2F

 
Ken to concatenate minutes from F2F and post to
     list (with Michiharu's amendment on advice)

 
Carlisle to contact Ernesto and
     Pierangela regarding their level of participation in the committee

 
Tim to Post MathML schema conversion.

 

Action Items on Hold

 
Resolve IP issues with IBM. On hold waiting on
     OASIS to discuss IP issues with IBM in 1 to 1 ½ weeks.

 
Anne to go over request context with Eve Maler to
     see which parts make sense to fold into SAML after finalizing of SAML
     issue list. On hold, waiting for context issues to be resolved.

 

 

Votes

Motion to accept minutes from F2F approved

Motion to accept minutes of 6/13 approved.

Motion to have next F2F (7/30-8/1) at Hitachi outside Boston
approved.

 

Proposed Agenda:

10:00-10:05 Roll Call and Agenda Review 

10:05-10:10 Vote to accept minutes of June 19-20 F2F
meeting 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00056.html

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00059.html 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00063.html 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00065.html 

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00068.html 

(see also  http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00059.html
) 

10:10-10:15 Review of Action Items (see 6/20
teleconference minutes) 

10:15-10:30 Summary of last week's F2F meeting (Bill,
Tim) 

10:30-10:40 Next F2F discussion:  date, place, agenda (Carlisle)

10:40-10:45 Next teleconference:  July 4 or July 11? (Carlisle)

10:45-11:00 Any other business 

 

 

Roll Call 

Simon Godik, Self

Ken Yagen, Crosslogix

Hal Lockhart, Entegrity

Carlisle Adams, Entrust

Tim Moses, Entrust

Don Flinn, Hitachi

Konstantin Beznosov, Hitachi

Michiharu Kudoh, IBM

Bill Parducci, Self

Anne Anderson, Sun Microsystems

Gerald Brose, Xtradyne

 

Raw Minutes (taken by Ken Yagen)

Hal - For courtesy of those reading archive, ask Ken to
concatenate them and post back to list.

Tim - Did people find them useful posting the minutes
periodically during the F2F?

Some consensus of yes

Carlisle - Need to contact Milan folks as they
have not been active for a while. Will send them an email today.

Ken asked to add vote to accept minutes of June 13 meeting

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/xacml/200206/msg00055.html

 

Michiharu - Minutes from Thursday PM discussion, does not say
advice is optional.

Wed Morning Minutes - Attribute Designator - says might need a
different name

Anne - Talked about Attribute Selector when used in the policy.
When used in the policy is different from SAML definition.

Ken - will add word optional in concatenated minutes

 

Motion to accept minutes from F2F approved

Motion to accept minutes of 6/13 approved.

 

Action
Items

 
Ernesto to send to Anne non-normative examples of
     policy signatures after exams complete.

Anne - Not heard from Ernesto

 
Ken to send out updated issues list in next week.

Ken - Not done yet. Will get out in next few days. Trying
to clean up old issues to shorten doc.

 
Anne needs one more week to put together single,
     concise example

Made progress, but will need two more weeks (7/11)

 
Carlisle/Simon to release version 15 of spec in ~
     10 days.

Carlisle - Suggestion that new updated schema at
beginning of next week (Mon/Tues), then take 1 to 1 ½ weeks to make v15
consistent with new schema - by 7/11 teleconference. 

Tim - Requires vote on typing first - scheduled
for the 7/8, so 7/12 is earliest

Objective - 7/12 release of v15

 
Tim - first draft of Access Control background
     due 7/19

Tim - Some initial text with nine subject areas want
to site background material. Started collecting survey papers that cover back
to early 90's and some 80's. Would like to record some initial
references and then carve up nine points among 3-4 people to track down
appropriate references and provide text on the points.

Tim - Will send out points to the list. There is
a small subgroup working on it.

Anne - Pulled some info from ACM archives; will
send it to Tim

Michiharu - have a paper I can send you.

Anne - Talked to Joe Pato. A patent lawyer
looked at them. Not a concern, probably don't affect XACML.

Action Item to review Tim's list of nine areas
and if aware of any background material that can collect up and comment on,
send it to Tim

 
Set new due date for XACML primer from Hal and Konstantin

Hal - Should plan to start no later than after
v15 published

 
Hal to take over section 6 of specification. Hal
     agreed to propose something for section 6 regardless of XrML.

Hal - Want to propose something early in week of
7/8 so can be incorporated in v15

 
Examples to be created and posted to list showing
     useful split of schema

Tim - Has to do with split off of separate functions
and predicates. Idea is don't want that in main body of schema. Been some
discussion also of deleting schema from spec. If have 30-40 pages of type
definitions, do not want to have it appear in spec.

Anne - Daniel was asked to explain merits of his
proposal and provide examples. 

Tim - Daniel proposes they should be in XML
instances rather than schema.

Tim - This is pending outcome of vote on types
on 7/8

Michiharu - Xpath has two schemas - datatypes/functions
and core schema.

Carlisle - no discussion on
lists. Perhaps people waiting on Daniel's proposal.

 
Tentative planning of final F2F at end of July
     (week of 22nd or 29th)

Later

 

Action Items on Hold

 
Resolve IP issues with IBM. On hold waiting on
     OASIS to discuss IP issues with IBM in 1 to 1 ½ weeks.

 
Anne to go over request context with Eve Maler to
     see which parts make sense to fold into SAML after finalizing of SAML
     issue list. On hold, waiting for context issues to be resolved.

 

10:34 Summary of last week's F2F

Tim - devoted 50/50 to context and typing

Context - Change to allow multiple responses as well as hierarchal
resources and queries about hierarchal resources. Does request apply to node,
node and subordinates or whole subtree. Changes reflected in context schema 2d

Typing - How to enforce strong typing in functions and predicates. 3
views:

 
Existing Text - don't need different
     functions for each legal data types

 
Simon - Should have different function type for
     each legal data types

 
Daniel - Different function types for each
     legal data type but not in XML Schema - XML instances instead

Decided that should allow wider committee to discuss and vote on the
topic

 

Carlisle - Assume hierarchal resources will
require change in SAML

Tim - Have not addressed SAML profile. Michiharu took action to
provide some text on SAML profile.

Michiharu - currently SAML allows to have multiple authz
assertions in SAML response but does not allow multiple resources.

Hal - Was a deliberate decision and debate in SAML. Maybe a new authz
decision request type with our context should be proposed.

Michiharu - Need to create SAML transformation from XACML context
and would appreciate help.

Hal - May be argument for a form of wildcarding (all contents of
a container), having the same policy apply to container and contents of
container will rarely be useful and has risk.

Carlisle - How are you defining the container?

Bill - query would specify one of three things

Hal - Argued successfully at SAML that asking questions about
multiple resources is a form of policy distribution which is not what SAML is
about. Concern is engines in some of products need to do a fresh policy
calculation and people might start caching results which has risk.

Simon - more general than just XML access control. Also in J2SE.

Hal - Don't object to hierarchal notion in the policy, but
in the request.

Hal - would be nice to see a clear statement of pros/cons of
three options

Carlisle - waiting on Daniel to articulate 3rd
option.

 

Tim - Have figured out how to import MathML DTD into XACML

Tim - Take MathML, convert to Schema and edit it down (only need
about 5%)

 

10:57 Next F2F

Carlisle - Anne and Don have offered to host.
Looking at 7/30 - 8/1 hosted by Hitachi/Quadrasis facilities in Boston. 

Email responses - 5 preferred Boston, 2 Ottawa, 1
no preference.

Primary objective is to wrap up the specification. Our track is to
submit by 9/1 and this gives time to do implementation in August.

 

Motion approved to have next F2F 7/30 - 8/1 (Tues-Thurs) at Hitachi
facilities in Boston area.

 

we will cancel the 7/4 meeting, so next TC call will be on 7/11

 

Action item for Don to post details to the list on F2F logistics

 

10:05 Motion to adjourn