RE: [wsbpel] This telcon process doesn't work!

Folks,

My initial reaction to today's kickoff:

 

We ran into some issues (some business but mostly protocol,
I think), but to me, these seem like mostly normal issues for the birth-pains
of a new group with this kind of mission and industry interest. The benefit to
running into these kinds of issues in our kickoff meeting is that we can
solidify some ground rules and practices early in our life that will help
things go more smoothly the rest of the way, before we get to the really gnarly
issues. BTW, thanks to all who spearheaded, attended, and supported this, but
especially to Diane and John for their patient leadership.

 

Some points of order that I might offer:

 

A few folks complained about having a conference call meeting
conducted mostly in "listen-only" mode and needing to resort to speaker
queues. I presume they felt that this somehow would constrain or limit
(negatively) the opportunities for contribution and/or interaction.

 

In fact, if we were to strictly follow Robert's Rules
of Order, these constraints would be barely noticed by anyone participating
(with maybe a minor exception, see my suggested revisions below). [In fact,
following Robert's Rules on a conf call with speaker-queuing is better
than following Robert's Rules in person in at least one way: the fairness
of the queuing is managed for us by the call system; when in person, the
sequence of hand-raising is somewhat subject to the memory of the chair.]

 

John, I think you mentioned getting a FAQ for Robert's
Rules posted to the BPEL site - this is crucial, and everyone needs to
get some basic familiarity with operating in a group bound by Robert's
Rules. They are intended (and crafted over many years) to help ensure fair and
orderly conduct of decision making by groups.

 

To be clear, for BPEL conf call TC meetings, I am strongly
in favor of conducting them roughly as was proposed for today's call,
with listen-mode most of the time (to minimize line noise), plus the following
guidelines:

-         
allow folks to get in the speaker queue at any time (this
is simply analogous to raising your hand to be heard at an in-person meeting)

-         
ask that the meeting chair simply call on those in
the queue in a FIFO manner, as appropriate to the point at hand

-         
note that getting into the queue doesn't mean
you can speak at will; you will get your turn as called upon by the chair

-         
again, participants should think of getting in the
speaker queue simply as equivalent to raising your hand. If you 'drop
your hand' then re-raise it, you first fall out of the queue and then get
back on at the end of the queue. This is fair.

-         
until we get the hang of it, we maybe need to be a
bit more heavy-handed on enforcing some of the rules of order, e.g., when the
item on the floor is whether or not you object to the current motion, do not
use your moment on the floor to suggest another amendment - that only
creates confusion. There are certain times open for amendments, etc. Read
Robert's Rules to get some understanding of how this works.

 

(A geeky
thought: Robert's Rules represents a set of very structured rules for
conducting a certain kind of conversation - we should consider it as a
use case - express Robert's Rules in BPEL! ;)

 

Later, after we get some familiarity and trust with each
other, I suspect we can feel comfortable relaxing some aspects of Robert's
Rules, and can segue into a little less formality. But to start, I strongly
recommend that we follow the book very strictly; this lays the ground rules up
front and no one will feel they are being treated unfairly in any way.

 

If I had any thought of not attending the face-to-face,
those have been erased. I think that meeting in first-person and getting a
chance to know each other will do wonders for improving our rapport and
hopefully comfort with each other, and we can become efficient at making our
way through the work that lies ahead.

 

Looking forward,

Rand

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Ben Bloch
[mailto:] 

Sent: Friday, May 16,
 2003 1:40 PM

To: Burdett, David; 'Darran
Rolls'; Diane Jordan; 

Subject: Re: [wsbpel] This telcon
process doesn't work!

 

It was tough, wasn't it and the
polling (or rather the handraising - polling itself should be doable in this
manner) mechanism was frustrating indeed.  If the TC and the chairs feel
such a large group is too large to manage without a "Coordinator"
(100 is a lot although I have seen it managed), we really should look at moving
to subgroups focusing on specific topics - eg charter, legal, technical
(the reason for the TC don't forget), etc -  pretty quickly
where the issues can be hashed out in detail.  F2F's probably don't
happen frequently enough to deal with all the issues that require
unobstructed free form interaction.  

 

Just my .02.

 

BB

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Burdett, David 

To: 'Darran
Rolls' ; Diane
Jordan ;  

Sent: Friday, May 16,
 2003 12:12 PM

Subject: [wsbpel]
This telcon process doesn't work! 

 

I would also like to
strongly support Darren's statement.

 

So far ...

1. Diane asked if there
were any objection - I had one as I had an alternative suggestion

2. We were asked to press
*1 if there was an objection

3. We were later told to
cancel the *1 as someone was needed to second a motion

 

Net result, it was
impossible for me to raise my objection. Therefore I am being prohibited from
making a contribution.

 

There HAS to be a better
way.

 

David

-----Original
Message-----

From: Darran Rolls
[mailto:]

Sent: Friday, May 16,
 2003 7:13 AM

To: Diane Jordan;


Subject: RE: [wsbpel] Agenda for
May 16 WS BPEL TC 

Diane

 

On the basis that I am
not permitted to raise comment on the currently running call I would like to
register my opposition to holding the initial con-call as a "listen
only" call.  This seems highly irregular!!!

 

=========================================================

Darran
Rolls                     
http://www.waveset.com

Waveset
Technologies Inc         
 

512) 657
8360                    

=========================================================

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Diane Jordan
[mailto:] 

Sent: Wednesday, May
 14, 2003 10:04 PM

To: 

Subject: [wsbpel] Agenda for May
16 WS BPEL TC 

 

Hello All, 

The
agenda for the WS BPEL TC conference call on Friday May 16, 7am PDT, is below.
 As a reminder, dial in information is:  US Toll Free: 888-711-4576,
Toll: +1-484-630-9377, Passcode:  WS BPEL Technical Committee, Leader
name: Diane Jordan.  You will need both the pass code and leader name to
be admitted.  Also, to be admitted to the call, your name needs to be on
the TC roster (which it is if you've received this email from me). 

 

During
the call on Friday we will be discussing nominations for several roles on the
Technical committee, including secretary, webmaster, liaison coordinator, and
members of the editing teams for the specification, issues list and
requirements list.   One of the slides below has a few words about each.
   We will also need someone at the start of the call to volunteer to
take minutes.  Please consider volunteering and feel free to let us know
before the meeting.   

 

We will try to adhere to the times shown in the agenda to get through the TC
start up process.  We have a follow on call planned for Wed. May 21 at 8am PDT that will
cover items we do not complete on Friday, if any, so the way will be clear to
focus on the work plan for the TC at the face to face meeting May 28-29.  

We'll
have an operator assisting with the call on Friday.  The operator will
take your name when you join for our attendance tracking.  All lines will
be in listen mode except the speakers until Q&A/Discussion times when the
operator will moderate a speakers queue.  We're hoping this will help make
a call with so many participants more productive.   

We're
looking forward to working with you and appreciate your support.  

Regards,
Diane

IBM  Dynamic e-business Technologies



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