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Subject: Re: [ubl] Naming of the Order Response document type
From: Tim McGrath <>
To:
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:32:04 +0800
thanks Anders and Monica for such informative responses. i think i have
enough to respond to the questioner.
my take on this is that the questioner has confused message acknowledgement
with acceptance of an offer to sell goods. I think we are safer to avoid
the term acknowledgement in our document titles - just to make it clear these
are not a message acknowledgements. I think the fact an Order Response can
be a de-facto acknowledgement is simply a feature of the communications stack,
i.e. "if i am sending you a response i must have received your message",
but this acknowledgement is implied not explicit.
in particular i found Anders' reference to UNICTRAL (http://www.uncitral.org/english/texts/sales/CISG.htm)
worthwhile. It defines a business process model/scenario for procurement
at a very high level and would be useful to bear in mind when we talk about
customizing documents for different processes.
As Anders notes in his comment, the CISG makes a distinction between Acceptance
(the seller agreeing totally to the Order) and a Counteroffer (the seller
proposes additions, limitations or other modifications that alter the offer
materially).
The first document type is what we know as an Order Response Simple and could
perhaps be called Order Acceptance. The problem we had with this is that
sometimes we use this document to reject an Order - so the title is confusing.
however, having read the CISG, i suggest (for UBL 1.1) we make Order Acceptance
an alternative Business Term for Order Response Simple (we also currently
have Order Acknowledgement and PO Response as synonyms).
The latter document type is what we would call an Order Response and could
be called Counteroffer Order. I am not sure that is a common use of the
term but we could add it as another synonym to this document type if enough
people feel it is worthwhile.
Anders W. Tell wrote:
Tim McGrath
wrote:
At a recent presentation on UBL I was asked if
we were aware of the issues conerning naming our document type "Order Response".
The questioner expressed a concern that there were global trade practice
implications and we would be better to call this an "Acknowledgement of
Receipt of Order". Apparently this was suggested by some authority in
the United States.
Does anyone know anything about this matter? I cannot imagine what this
means but I committed to get a response from the TC - so i would appreciate
any input.
I suggest to read the following Model LAW and Recommendation that a global
and highly normative references. They both defined relevant terminology
and proper usage.
1.United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods
(Vienna 1980) ("CISG")
<http://www.ebxml.nu/en/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=15>
2. UN/CEFACT Recommendation 31: ELECTRONIC COMMERCE AGREEMENT
<http://www.ebxml.nu/en/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=14>
Reading the "cd-UBL-1.0" documents it seems as if ...
"Order Response Simple
The Order Response Simple is the means by which the Seller confirms receipt
of the Order from the Buyer, indicating either commitment to fulfill without
change or that the Order has been rejected."
Corresponds to BOTH "Acknowledge of Recipt" and "Acceptance of Order", its
the instrument of acceptance. In order words the name could rather be OrderAcceptance.
The Order Response definition has a text which is more ambigous.
"Order Response
Proposed changes by the Seller are ?accomplished? through the full Order
Response document.
The Order Response proposes to ?replace? the original Order. It reflects
the entire new state of an order transaction. It also is the means by which
the Seller confirms or supplies Order-related details to the Buyer that
were not available to, or specified by, the Buyer at the time of ordering.
These may include: ...."
It is difficult to determine what the term "accomplished" means, is it Accepence
or a CounterOffer? When working with offer and counter -offers it is also
recommended to define a Merger Clause.
Article 19 of CISG seems relevant in UBL case.
It seems fairly clear that Order Response Simple and Order Response do NOT
correspond to "Acknowledgement of Receipt of Order" semantics. Maybe the
proposer of change could add more information to the discussion?
However a suggestion is to take terminology from CISG and Rec 31 in order
to improve global acceptence and lessens confusion.
Thanks
/Anders
--
regards
tim mcgrath
phone: +618 93352228
postal: po box 1289 fremantle western australia 6160
