Drummond
Thanks VERY MUCH. I'll take a look - it looks really interesting.
But this motivates me - even more than before - to think that URLs not
URNs are the right URIs to use as identifiers.
Paul
=drummond.reed wrote:
>> Paul Fremantle wrote:
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> You lost me here:
>>
>> Peter F Brown wrote:
>>> you shouldn't find anything at the end of a URI that purports to be an
> identifier except, well,
>>> something that helps identify the artefact being referenced.
>>> An RDDL document is not an identifier - it is a resource descriptor;
>> I'm not a great theoretician, but it seems to me that sticking RDDL+HTML
>> as the content dereferenced by an identifier URI is really useful. You
>> say its not the only thing that could be dereferenced. I agree - the
>> most common thing dereferenced from an identifier URI is a 404 Not Found
>> HTML :-)
>>
>> But seriously:
>>
>> 1) Can you please give an example of something better or more
>> appropriate than a RDDL?
>
> I would not want to characterize it as either "something better" or
> "something more appropriate", but it's worth mentioning an XRDS (Extensible
> Resource Descriptor Sequence) document, defined by the OASIS XRI TC. It's
> specifically designed for lightweight service discovery, and in addition to
> being the format used by XRI resolution, it's also the format used by Yadis
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yadis) and OpenID (www.openid.net). Details
> are in the current Working Draft of XRI Resolution 2.0:
>
>
> Http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/24286/xri-resolution-v2.0-
> wd-11-ed-02.doc
>
> =Drummond
>
>> 2) Can you explain how I can get better information about the meaning of
>> a URN than I get from a well written HTML+RDDL document?
>
> An XRDS document isn't going to give you "better information", just
> additional information.
>
> =Drummond (http://xri.net/=drummond.reed)
>
>
>> Thanks
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>> ==================
>>> From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:]
>>> Sent: 18 June 2007 16:03
>>> To: Peter F Brown
>>> Cc: ;
>>> Subject: RE: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN
> namespaces
>>>
>>> The OASIS TAB has published guidelines for namespace URIs (amongst other
> subjects related to
>>> metadata) here:
>>>
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNaming.ht
> ml
>>> These guidelines include recommendation that namespace URIs be HTTP
> scheme URIs and that there
>>> be a published RDDL document at the namespace URI location. URNs are
> permitted for use, but HTTP
>>> scheme URIs are preferred/recommended since they can be resolved without
> additional machinery. Note
>>> that OASIS hs no plans to implement such a resolution mechanism:
>>>
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/specGuidelines/namingGuidelines/resourceNamingCom
> mentaryV07.html#urnResolution
>>> An example of these guidelines in action can be found with the WS-RX TC's
> WS-RM namespace URI:
>>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/ws-rx/wsrm/200702
>>>
>>> Frankly, I don't personally see any material benefit to use of a URN
> scheme namespace. I suspect that
>>> some believe that by using a URN, they have created a 'permanent
> identifier'. Well, frankly, there is no
>>> reason why an HTTP scheme URI cannot be 'permanent'. It isn't as if OASIS
> is going to drop off the face of
>>> the earth anytime soon.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Christopher Ferris
>>> STSM, Software Group Standards Strategy
>>> email:
>>> blog: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/chrisferris
>>> phone: +1 508 234 2986
>>>
>>> "Peter F Brown" <> wrote on 06/18/2007 09:43:24 AM:
>>>
>>>> Paul:
>>>> I think the objective is laudable but I don't see the point of the
>>>> "http://www.oasis-open.org/namespace?ns=" part of the statement. Surely,
>>>> if some application wants to do something with the "pure" (and on its
>>>> own non-deferenceable) urn, then surely it will ba equipped to make that
>>>> call using http get or whatever.
>>>>
>>>> By effectively tying a namespace to a derefereceable network endpoint
>>>> and to specific and prescribed dereferencing mechanism, is there not a
>>>> danger that you:
>>>> - either limit what can be legitimately found at the network endpoint to
>>>> an RDDL file only, cutting out other possible uses of the namespace;
>>>> - or creating false expectations and possible architectural problems
>>>> when unpredictable results come from finding something other than a RDDL
>>>> document at the end of the pipe.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, I'd be in favour of a mechanism by which RDDL
>>>> documents, when available, can be accessed using a prescribed OASIS
>>>> managed URL to which you would tack the namespace urn.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>> -------------
>>>> Peter F Brown
>>>> Chair, CEN eGovernment Focus Group
>>>> Founder, Pensive.eu
>>>> Co-Editor, OASIS SOA Reference Model
>>>> Lecturer at XML Summer School
>>>> ---
>>>> Personal:
>>>> +43 676 610 0250
>>>> http://public.xdi.org/=Peter.Brown
>>>> www.XMLbyStealth.net
>>>> www.xmlsummerschool.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Paul Denning [mailto:]
>>>> Sent: 30 May 2007 18:45
>>>> To:
>>>> Subject: [oasis-member-discuss] OASIS namespace documents for URN
>>>> namespaces
>>>>
>>>> Some OASIS TC's use an HTTP URI when they define an XML
>>>> Namespace. Some TC's have started using RDDL as a namespace document
>>>> when these namespace URI's are dereferenced using HTTP GET.
>>>>
>>>> Other OASIS TC's use URN's to identify their XML Namespace.
>>>>
>>>> I suggest that OASIS provide a mechanism to resolve a namespace
>>>> document (RDDL or other) using HTTP and passing in the namespace URN
>>>> in a query parameter.
>>>>
>>>> For example,
>>>>
>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/namespace?ns=urn:oasis:names:tc:emergency:EDXL
>>>> :DE:1.0
>>>>
>>>> would return a RDDL document associated with the EDXL-DE namespace.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> Paul Fremantle
>> Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
>> OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
>>
>> Office: +1 646 290 8050
>> Cell: +44 798 447 4618
>>
>> blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
>>
>>
>> "Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
>>
>
>
--
Paul Fremantle
Co-Founder and VP of Technical Sales, WSO2
OASIS WS-RX TC Co-chair
Office: +1 646 290 8050
Cell: +44 798 447 4618
blog: http://pzf.fremantle.org
"Oxygenating the Web Service Platform", www.wso2.com
