Thanks John - that clears it up. ebMS v3, not ebXML v3. I now retract my
original observation. :)
Kind Regards,
Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> -----Original Message-----
> From: john hardin [mailto:]
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 10:01 AM
> To: Matthew MacKenzie
> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; David Webber (XML); Monica J. Martin;
> Duane Nickull; ;
> ; ;
> ; ;
> ; ;
> ; John Casillas; ;
> ; ; James Bryce Clark
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
>
> OK, I am now learning to be very specific. I am referring to ebMS v3.
>
> Matthew MacKenzie wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > Where did this vision come from? I didn't get the memo.
> Certainly,
> > the ebMS team has communicated and moved our work in that
> direction,
> > but I don't see other ebStandards explicitly moving toward
> that vision.
> >
> > -matt
> >
> > Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >
> >> Sounds great - where can I get more OASIS-official public
> information
> >> on this? And also on ebXML v2? This is highly useful and valuable
> >> information.
> >>
> >> Kind Regards,
> >> Joseph Chiusano
> >> Booz Allen Hamilton
> >> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: john hardin [mailto:] Sent:
> >>> Thursday, February 03, 2005 9:30 AM
> >>> To: David Webber (XML)
> >>> Cc: Chiusano Joseph; Monica J. Martin; Duane Nickull;
> >>> ; ;
> >>> ; ; ;
> >>> ; ;
> ; John
> >>> Casillas; ; ;
> >>> ; James Bryce Clark
> >>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>
> >>> That would be the list, thanks David.
> >>> Joe, the ebMS v3 direction has been (and I think still is) to
> >>> encompass the WS-I Basic Profile, the WS-Security and other WS*
> >>> specs, thereby moving towards convergence. A curious
> point is that
> >>> we don't see that kind of outreach yet from the other side....
> >>>
> >>> john
> >>>
> >>> David Webber (XML) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Joe,
> >>>>
> >>>> That is exactly what we are qualifiying here in ebSOA!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> We have BPSS V2, ebMS V3, Registey V3 - but no updated
> architecture
> >>>> that documents the new capabilities that all this enables.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks, DW
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Chiusano Joseph" <>
> >>>> To: "john hardin" <>; "Monica
> J. Martin"
> >>>> <>; "David RR Webber"
> >>>
> >>> <>; "Duane
> >>>
> >>>> Nickull" <>; <>;
> >>>> <>; <>;
> >>>> <>; <>;
> >>>
> >>> <>;
> >>>
> >>>> <>; <>; "John Casillas"
> >>>> <>; <>;
> >>>> <>; <>;
> >>>
> >>> "James Bryce Clark"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> <>
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 7:29 AM
> >>>> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> <Quote>
> >>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps (ebXML v3 is
> >>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!) </Quote>
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you please explain what "ebXML v3" is?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks,
> >>>> Joe
> >>>>
> >>>> Joseph Chiusano
> >>>> Booz Allen Hamilton
> >>>> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: john hardin [mailto:]
> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 AM
> >>>>> To: Monica J. Martin; David RR Webber; Duane Nickull;
> >>>>> ; ;
> >>>>> ; ; ;
> >>>>> ; ;
> >>>
> >>> ; John
> >>>
> >>>>> Casillas; ; ;
> >>>>> ; James Bryce Clark
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] New Chair - John Hardin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks Monica and thanks to all for the warm welcome.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have copied a number of folks on this, because I
> would like to
> >>>>> enlist their assistance for the ebSOA editing
> activities or
> >>>
> >>> just for
> >>>
> >>>>> ideas as we move forward. Also Jamie and Dale asked me about
> >>>>> addressing the ebXML-jc group. I had a good
> conversation with Jamie
> >>>>> the other night, and got some direction from both him and
> >>>
> >>> from Duane.
> >>>
> >>>>> I would very much like to address the ebXML-jc, and get a
> >>>>> braindump how the two groups need to dovetail. I'll
> plan on being
> >>>>> on the call next Wed if allowed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My primary vision for the ebSOA group is to move forward
> >>>
> >>> with the work
> >>>
> >>>>> from the charter (pattern catalog) and act as a facilitator
> >>>>> towards
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> interoperability among the upcoming business process
> >>>
> >>> frameworks (WS*,
> >>>
> >>>>> ebXML and SemWeb are three that are working to gain
> dominance). The
> >>>>> request-response model is a very simplistic view that
> isn't
> >>>
> >>> currently
> >>>
> >>>>> mapping well onto the true complexity that large
> industries have
> >>>>> developed in their shared business processes. For
> example,
> >>>
> >>> no one will
> >>>
> >>>>> argue today that inventory visibility for the automotive
> >>>
> >>> industry is a
> >>>
> >>>>> request-response model between two partners. Healthcare
> is another
> >>>>> area that is very complex, and requires multiple
> >>>
> >>> interactions between
> >>>
> >>>>> large numbers of process participants to complete the
> information
> >>>>> exchange, with forks and decisions during the execution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The other reality is that process participants require constant
> >>>>> realtime feeds of information from many points in the
> >>>
> >>> process, which
> >>>
> >>>>> are owned and offered by various companies of various
> sizes and IT
> >>>>> capabilities.
> >>>>> This spells out, to me at least, the need for a network
> operating
> >>>>> framework, where processes run in an "app fabric"
> >>>>> that is dependable and very open. Then we can layer event
> >>>>> causation techniques and other things like shared
> industry process
> >>>>> B.A.M. on top. The network REALLY IS the computer....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To accomplish this kind of integration, I believe that
> we need to:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a) work towards interop between the WS and eb camps
> (ebXML v3 is
> >>>>> closing that gap rapidly - thanks Dale!)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> b) gather and document, then publish and evangelize,
> real world use
> >>>>> cases that prove SOA principles using ebXML and WS and
> >>>
> >>> shine a light
> >>>
> >>>>> on successful implementations
> >>>>>
> >>>>> c) include both WS* and ebXML patterns, along with SemWeb and
> >>>>> agent patterns (no rocks thrown, please - the
> SemWeb/Agent stuff
> >>>>> is the long-term target)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> d) work with WS-I and the specs to ensure that we have
> consistent
> >>>>> direction towards convergence
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My belief is that the entire IT industry is poised on the
> >>>
> >>> verge of a
> >>>
> >>>>> major break in what I think is so far a stagnation. The
> >>>
> >>> potential of
> >>>
> >>>>> the internet is clear - and everyone is aware that it's
> >>>
> >>> potential is
> >>>
> >>>>> more than just human readable web pages. We all feel it,
> >>>
> >>> business has
> >>>
> >>>>> been preparing (somewhat) for it, and the engineers all
> >>>
> >>> want to build
> >>>
> >>>>> it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, this level of information integration won't
> happen unless:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a) the path to implementation of standards based
> messaging between
> >>>>> partner, or producer/consumer, applications, is very clear
> >>>>>
> >>>>> b) all players involved in complex processes can participate
> >>>>>
> >>>>> c) the integration effort doesn't involve such a long,
> drawn out
> >>>>> mapping effort everytime (this kills progress on the
> entire
> >>>
> >>> movement)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> The industry will continue to stall until we solve some
> of these
> >>>>> problems. I would like to help by completing the
> patterns and the
> >>>>> catalog of patterns, and publish the use cases to
> describe
> >>>
> >>> it. There
> >>>
> >>>>> also needs to be a major outreach effort to all industry
> >>>
> >>> groups that
> >>>
> >>>>> are building shared business processes (which by the way, look
> >>>>> much more complex than simple request-response models).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's it, I guess....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>> 313.930.5323
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Monica J. Martin wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> John,
> >>>>>> On a related point (to ebSOA that is), previously Matt
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> MacKenzie was
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> the ebSOA representative to the ebXML-jc. Perhaps you
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> could provide
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> some insight into your overall vision of the ebSOA TC
> based on its
> >>>>>> original charter. I've asked Jamie Clark to give an
> update
> >>>
> >>> on ebSOA
> >>>
> >>>>>> and SOA TC efforts. In the past, it was anticipated that
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ebSOA would
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> assist in defining the next generation architecture
> for
> >>>
> >>> ebXML. Your
> >>>
> >>>>>> thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>> john c hardin
> >>>>> sanghainteractive.com
> >>>>> 313.930.5323 cell
> >>>>> mailto:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world
> in
> >>>
> >>> the image
> >>>
> >>>>> of a global village."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~
> >>> john c hardin
> >>> sanghainteractive.com
> >>> 313.930.5323 cell
> >>> mailto:
> >>>
> >>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world
> in the image
> >>> of a global village."
> >>>
> >>> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~
> john c hardin
> sanghainteractive.com
> 313.930.5323 cell
> mailto:
>
> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in
> the image of a global village."
>
> Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
>
>
>
