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Re: [dita] Stage three: #29 Bookmap update -- Ready for TC consideration

From
Kristen James Eberlein <>
Date
2019-12-03T15:46:02+00:00
ID
Thread
Re: [dita] Stage three: #29 Bookmap update -- Ready for TC consideration
Again, a new publication map is already on our list for DITA
        2.0. I'm glad to hear that you would be interested in working on
        it.

      

      
Best,

        Kris

        

        Kristen James Eberlein

        Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee

        Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

        www.eberleinconsulting.com

        +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

        

      

      
On 12/3/2019 10:33 AM, Gershon Joseph
        wrote:

      

      
        
        
        
        

          
If bookmap
              is fundamentally flawed (which I cannot deny!), I strongly
              suggest we develop a parallel new publication map in DITA
              2.0, with documentation that the legacy bookmap will be
              deprecated in DITA 3.0. Iâm happy to lead the effort on
              the next-gen publication map, assuming I can gather
              everyoneâs input and ideas. 

          
Â

          
Kris, feel
              free to add this item to a future agenda. If there is any
              documentation on the known flaws of bookmap and ideas that
              have been suggested for the new publication map, please
              point me to them.

          
Â

          
Gershon

          
Â

          

            
From:
                <>
                on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <>

                Date: Tuesday, 3 December 2019 at 17:22

                To: "Wegmann, Frank" <>,
                ""
                <>

                Subject: Re: [dita] Stage three: #29 Bookmap
                update -- Ready for TC consideration

          

          

            
Â

          

          
Two other considerations here:

          
            
 The TC hoped to include a new publication
              map for DITA 2.0. Whether or not we will manage to do this
              is an open question ...

            
 Because we considered the design of bookmap
              to be fundamentally flawed, we did not want to redesign
              it. But because we know bookmap is used heavily, we wanted
              to add some critical functionality. This is the rationale
              for updating bookmap without breaking backwards
              compatibility.

          
          

            
Best,

              Kris

              

              Kristen James Eberlein

              Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee

              Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

              www.eberleinconsulting.com

              +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

          

          

            
On 12/3/2019 9:21 AM, Wegmann, Frank
              wrote:

          

          
            
Hi
                Kris et al.

            
Â

            
This
                bookmap update is the first proposal Iâve read now.
                Being new to the committee, I also wondered home some
                decisions have been made, but then Kris confirmed my
                suspicionsin her replies that it would be appropriate to
                study the previous stage proposals before raising my
                voice.

            
Â

            
What
                I can say is that I generally appreciate the careful
                stance on breaking backward compatibility. The less hard
                the migration path, the less work it means to adapt
                production and reeducate authors, if you have dozens of
                them spread globally with hundreds of bookmaps, like we
                do. Iâm sure Robert is very much aware of a
                practitionerâs position like this.

            
Â

            
Of
                course, progress needs to be made, and I especially
                welcome the addition of ditavalref to the bookmap as
                well as the introduction of the mapresources element.
                And, furthermore, the improved specification text by
                adding âProcessing expectationsâ.

            
Â

            
Thank
                you for this extension of the bookmap!

            
Â

            
Frank

            

              

                
From: 
                    
                      <> On
                      Behalf Of Kristen James Eberlein

                    Sent: Monday, December 2, 2019 4:35 PM

                    To: 

                    Subject: Re: [dita] Stage three: #29 Bookmap
                    update -- Ready for TC consideration

              

            

            
Â

            
Hi, Gershon.

            
Please see my comments below.

            

              
Best,

                Kris

                

                Kristen James Eberlein

                Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee

                Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

                www.eberleinconsulting.com

                +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

            

            

              
On 12/2/2019 9:17 AM, Gershon Joseph
                wrote:

            

            
              
Hi all,

              
Â

              
I have reviewed this proposal and
                have a few comments (they are general comments not
                specifically related to this proposal. Excuse me if any
                of these things have been discussed in my absence from
                the TC, in which case just refer me to the minutes or
                other documentation.

              
Â

              
Point #1

              
This proposal does not state why the
                change is being done. Whatâs the motivation for this
                change? Whatâs the business case? I can think of a
                couple, but I think the proposal should mention the
                business or technical need driving the change. Then this
                text could be lifted as-is to the documentation of the
                standard, which should make life easier for the authors
                of the eventual standard.

            
            
<kje>This is covered
                  in the stage two proposal. It would be good if you
                  familiarized yourself with the stage 1, stage 2, and
                  stage processes. We put considerable time in
                  implementing this new process for DITA 1.3 and
                  revising it for DITA 2.0; we are pretty satisfied with
                  it.

            
I'm very glad to see you
                  back participating on the TC, Gershon, but you will
                  have some catching up to do! We've changed a lot of
                  processes since I became chair.

            
See:

            
              
 Stage two
                    proposal for #29: 
https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201910/msg00097.html

              
 DITA 2.0
                    process: 
https://wiki.oasis-open.org/dita/DITA_2.0_Proposal_Process_DRAFT
                    (ignore fact that URL contains the word DRAFT)

                    </kje>

            
            
              
Â

              
Point #2

              
Why are we concerned about keeping
                backward compatibility in a major release? The TC has a
                huge, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to fix and improve
                things that we could not do with any minor release of
                the standard. If there is a better way to achieve the
                desired outcome, I suggest we do it now and document any
                backward incompatibility we introduce. Iâm concerned
                about making the DTD files more complex simply for the
                sake of backwards compatibility when weâre doing a major
                release.

            
            
<kje>DITA 2.0 is our
                  very first backwards INCOMPATIBLE release. This has
                  scared many people in the committee. Accordingly, we
                  are committed to documenting backwards-incompatible
                  stuff carefully. We also consider how big of an impact
                  a change would have and whether it's worth it.

            
In general, we're doing a
                  whole lot of clean up and implementing a lot of
                  changes to previous design decisions that ended up
                  being less than optimal.</kje>

            
              
Â

              
Point #3

              
Point #2 is a good Segway into this
                concern. The standard says the XSDs are the normative
                standard, but our proposals talk about DTDs almost
                exclusively. All of our content model discussions are
                based on how to achieve the outcome via DTDs. If the XSD
                schema is normative, letâs focus our discussion on the
                XSD implementation and optimize that. At this time, the
                XSDs are essentially reverse-engineered DTDs, and donât
                take full opportunity of XSD functionality. For DITA 2.0
                I feel strongly we should re-architect the XSDs to fully
                embrace the schema functionality and best practices.
                Many vendors have raised this concern with me, so itâs
                not just me. <duck as Robert A throws a large heavy
                object in my direction/>

              
Seriously, Iâm not undermining the
                huge effort Robert and others put into the XSDs, I
                really do appreciate it. What Iâm suggesting is we take
                on an XSD re-architecture at this time before itâs too
                late.

            
            
Â

            
<kje>Um ... No. You
                  are missing facts. RNG is the normative grammar and
                  has been so since 1.3. We will not be shipping XSDs
                  for DITA 2.0, unless someone steps forward to create
                  and test them. Firm decision made already by the
                  TC.</kje>

            
              
Â

              
Point #4

              
The formatting of figure titles is
                confusing. I keep thinking the figure title is a figure
                caption referring to the code sample above, due to the
                lack of space above the title and huge space below. The
                figure title actually refers to the figure below the
                title. I know this is OASIS style, but please, please
                letâs fix it!!

            
            
<kje>If
                  you have specific changes to suggest, I'll point you
                  to the relevant plug-in. It lives in a DITA TC Git
                  repo.</kje> 

            
              
Â

              
Besides these gripes, I really like
                this proposal and see how it will make life easier for
                many users. I think weâd use it eventually at Mastercard
                (my current client at Precision Content).

              
Â

              
This is a very well-written proposal.
                Job well done!

            
            
<kje>Thanks.</kje>
              

            
              
Â

              
Gershon

              
Â

              
Â

              

                
From:
                    <>
                    on behalf of Kristen James Eberlein <>

                    Date: Sunday, 1 December 2019 at 16:43

                    To: DITA TC <>

                    Subject: [dita] Stage three: #29 Bookmap
                    update -- Ready for TC consideration

              

              

                
Â

              

              
This proposal has been reviewed by:

              
                
 Nancy Harrison, Individual member

                
 Eliot Kimber, Individual member

                
 Eric Sirois, IXIASOFT

              
              
The PDF is attached; the DITA source is available at 
http://tools.oasis-open.org/version-control/browse/wsvn/dita/trunk/DITA-2.0/stage-3/Issue-29-bookmap-update.dita

              

                
-- 

                  Best,

                  Kris

                  

                  Kristen James Eberlein

                  Chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee

                  Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

                  www.eberleinconsulting.com

                  +1 919 622-1501; kriseberlein (skype)

              

            
            
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