Re: [dita] DITA TC Meeting Minutes 15 January 2013 (text version)

Hi, Don.

      

      One change to these minutes. In the discussion about product names
      and Michael's musing based on Troy's e-mail, I asked about writers
      who WERE monolingual English speakers. These are the folks who do
      not necessarily understand cases (and how they affect noun forms)
      ...

      

      And yet again, thanks for taking the minutes and turning them
      around so swiftly!

      

      
Best,

        Kris

        

        Kristen James Eberlein

        Principal consultant, Eberlein Consulting

        Co-chair, OASIS DITA Technical Committee

        Charter member, OASIS DITA Adoption Committee

        www.eberleinconsulting.com

        +1 919 682-2290; kriseberlein (skype)

        

      

      On 1/15/2013 12:23 PM, Don R Day wrote:

    

    
      
      In lieu of a sluggish Kavi system this morning, I submit this
      record:

      

      

      Minutes, DITA Technical Committee, January 15 2013

      Scribe: Don Day

      Chaired by Kris Eberlein

      Speakers during today's call: 

          KE: Kris Eberlein

          RA: Robert Anderson

          DD: Don Day

          JH: JoAnn Hackos

          SD: Stan Doherty

      

      Status of Tech Comm SC: (JoAnn)

          Had first meeting, Bob Thomas working on Stage 3 proposals
      with current template. 

          Seth's team still on Release Management proposal. MP helping
      on the Steps domain for troubleshooting.

          MP asked about XML domain proposals. Kris has put this item on
      the agenda for today under stage 2. 

          MP wanted feedback on whether TC SC would want that proposal
      to be part of one of their packages. Will discuss shortly.

      

      Business:

      

      No stage 1

      

      Stage 2

      13114 Adding @rev to <title> elements.

          JoAnn reviewed the user requests that motivated the need.
      Nothing new to add.

          Eliot added that his publishing users likely have the same
      requirement as well.

          Because title is required, it has no select-atts, so there is
      no reason @rev should not be allowed.

          RA: Likely an oversight due to original grouping of
      attributes.

          KE: Will queue this for a vote next week

      

      13035 XML Mention:

          KE: is TechComm SC agreeable to add this item to their package
      (Eliot would still do all the drafting).

          KE: asked JoAnn to take an action to ask the SC about the
      request.

          Eliot reviewed the basics of the proposal for JoAnn.

      

      Stage 3: 

          None for discussion

          For vote:

          Proposal 13078: adding @rotate to entry and @orient to table 

          JH: y

          RA: y

          MP: y

          AW: y

          MB: y

          SD: y

          DHe: y

          DD: y

          KE: y 

          DB: y

          CN: y

          DHa: y

          EK: y

          TB: y

          Approved by acclamation of present voting members

      

      

      New items: Difficulties mentioned on dita-users list with product
      names and reuse

          KE: reviewed the discussion on dita-users, referenced her note
      to the tc list

              * https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/dita/201301/msg00010.html

          RA: reminded us of nesting keywords discussion, impact on
      domain specializations (element cloning in unintended places)

          DD: reviewed tension between schemas that mimic the
      programming model vs need to document parts of content within that
      markup.

          EK: keyword is pcdata or text or tm; are there any other
      elements that reuse keyword, and currently not (Robert's concern).

          RA: Robert would not change the keyword model

          EK: Wintitle does not allow tm, but could. Seems like an
      oversight

          RA: UIcontrol was motivated by output processing concerns (TM
      text should not appear in a UI)

          KE: Can already be abused; perhaps the question is whether
      wintitle could be specialized from ph instead of keyword.

          EK: Could break other's current work. Would have been ideal.

          KE: has been suggesting that others specialize their own
      wintitle from ph if needed.

              What people want to do is define their productname in an
      element. Adding tm to wintitle is a different issue.

          SD: Has a practice of using a glossary with ph, text, keyword
      to try to get all terms into one place for reuse--

              agrees with the general reuse problem.

          EK: there is a proposal to allow text where not currently
      allowed, might resolve part of the issue, but does not resolve

              reusable structures with semantic content (ie, product
      names with particular renditions)

          JH: Noted Troy K's response, intent to keep markup controls
      out of the source.

          KE: Notes that the management process is not available to
      smaller groups.

          MP: conref, conkeyref are all variable controls in DITA;
      Troy's approach is setting atts on the variable attribute 

              to identify its usage in speech to aid translators. 

          DD asked about glossary and part of speech, JH and MP both
      agree it is not sufficient as is.

          MP no mechanism in glossary for indicating same term in
      variant usage contexts.

          MP would explore the idea, though. Might be beyond 1.3.

          EK: Thinking of a general mechanism with glossary entry with
      forms of the term with a unique label for grammatic distinctions.
      

              Would use something like keyword to access the applicable
      part. Keyword with keyref would open up use of special phrases. 

              System processing can be problematic.

          MP: Of all the ways to do it, let's start wiht the translation
      SC and capture it as a post1.3 requirement.

          KE: Appreciates MP bringing up case and other options. Would
      writer be responsible for indicating case? 

              Is that okay for non-primary-English writers?

          MP: Writer just writes it; during translation, turn the
      variable file into an indexed lookup table that is actually 

              managed by translators (those who have the linguistic
      domain knowledge).

          JH: affirmed that grad students can't generally diagram a
      sentence--it is a widespread concern.

          KE: outputclass is not available on text element--should this
      be considered?

          RA: explicit decision to keep it as just a pure text variable,
      with semantics added by other wrappers.

          KE: Another argument for not allowing tm in text.

          EK: Doesn't like tm, but RA countered with real IBM use cases 
      in support of legal business rules about rendering usage.

          RA: When contracts change, an external rules file takes care
      of changes in rendering rules.

          EK: trademark in text should be okay

          DD: recalled IBM's use of eServer's special e font--businesses
      CAN have a reason for supporting presentation in trademarks.

          KE: Not much of anything we can do for DITA 1.3

          EK: perhaps we can allow text wherever tm is allowed?

          RA: tm is in the basic group used everywhere it is explicitly
      allowed.

          EK: publishing needs more generality; that is an invalid
      reason in general.

          SD: If writers and archs are running into limitations--are
      there sensible practices to document? He'be willing to contribute.

          KE: Would be happy to work with Stan on that document.

              Appreciated the useful conversation, looking forward to
      what we might do with glossary.

          EK: be nice if tm were a specialization of text, but that's
      not possible.

          KE: Thanks all for the time, adjourned the call.

      

      

      
-- 

        
        
          
Don R. Day

          
ContelligenceGroup.com

          
Co-Chair, OASIS

              DITA Technical Committee

          
LinkedIn: donrday   Twitter:

            @donrday

          
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