But we have established that there are some basic rendition expectations
that need to be defined as at least expected default behaviors, such as
enumeration of ordered lists and whatnot. I don't see why having <q>
generate quotes is not clearly in that same category.
Of course we should not mandate that as the only allowed behavior, but I
think having it be the expected default behavior is entirely appropriate and
consistent both with the original design intent and typical user
expectation.
Cheers,
E.
On 1/6/09 12:37 PM, "Grosso, Paul" <> wrote:
> But the point is that a user cannot do anything about
> browser behavior, so it is appropriate for that to be
> standardized.
>
> However a user is supposed to be in charge of what style
> is applied to their DITA content. A large part of the
> whole thrust of SGML/XML and structured content for
> decades has been the separation of format (and other
> application-specific processing) from the content.
> This improves reusability and makes localization
> easier (because different uses and locales can apply
> different stylesheets to the same content).
>
> It is wrong for the DITA standard to be standardizing
> format or any behavior beyond the basics that make
> DITA DITA.
>
> If we start talking about how to format the <q> element,
> then where do we stop? I don't see that we need to say
> anything here about format in the DITA language reference.
> We aren't supposed to be documenting how the toolkit
> formats DITA, we're supposed to be writing a specification
> for how to create DITA content.
>
> paul
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Bruce Nevin (bnevin) [mailto:]
>> Sent: Tuesday, 2009 January 06 11:48
>> To: dita
>> Subject: RE: [dita] Behavior of <q> element
>>
>> This could be in the form of a recommendation against additional
>> quotation marks, coupled with the observation that if you do elect to
>> add your own quote marks, you must of course not render <q>...</q> as
>> quotation marks, and that there is an overhead cost for
>> localization and
>> portability (one of Gershon's points).
>>
>> Of course <lq> like <BLOCKQUOTE> shouldn't have this issue,
>> but I -have
>> seen people put quotation marks around an indented paragraph, so there
>> could be an educational aspect to this.
>>
>> The W3C/HTML language has to deal with inconsistent browser behavior
>> (Microsoft is noncompliant until IE-8), whereas we have inconsistent
>> stylesheet behavior to consider.
>>
>> /BN
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Grosso, Paul [mailto:]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 10:59 AM
>>> To: dita
>>> Subject: RE: [dita] Behavior of <q> element
>>>
>>> I'd rather not say this. It's a style question that may
>>> differ from one house to another as to whether they want to
>>> author the quotes or not and/or how the quote is to be presented.
>>>
>>> The determination of what text may be generated for a given
>>> element in a given context and/or what other formatting it
>>> gets for a given output (e.g., one may format things
>>> differently for PDF output and HTML
>>> output) should be left to the style specification, however
>>> such is provided to a given composition system.
>>> This is outside the scope of the DITA specification.
>>>
>>> So the answer to how <q> should be processed is that it
>>> should be processed however its style specification indicates
>>> for a given application.
>>>
>>> paul
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Robert D Anderson [mailto:]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 2009 January 06 9:44
>>>> To: dita
>>>> Subject: [dita] Behavior of <q> element
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Going through the review comments to the specification, I
>>> found that
>>>> somebody asked for examples of how <q> should be processed.
>>>> Generally, we
>>>> try to stay away from processing behaviors, but this one
>> may be an
>>>> exception. The current description gives no suggestions as
>>> to whether
>>>> or not quotes should be generated. I checked the HTML 4.01
>>>> specification to see what they say; that specification
>> says that q
>>>> must be rendered with quotations, and that users should not
>>> add their
>>>> own quotes.
>>>> It goes on to
>>>> say that the quotes should be rendered in a
>>> language-sensitive manner.
>>>> See the section on rendering quotations:
>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/text.html#edef-Q
>>>>
>>>> Should we make a similar statement? I do not want to add
>> behaviors
>>>> that MUST be done without consulting the full TC, so - this is my
>>>> consultation.
>>>
>>>
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>
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----
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